. In the UK/EU/Australia/New Zealand? It helped a little bit, but it still vibrates like hell. I had a nocking issue and it turned out to be the dropout spacers. Has anyone got their H3 yet? No kidding That does seem strange. Every modern adult bike with flat bars uses the same diameter handlebar at the grip area, 22.2mm. I gather DCRainmaker had some consistency issues in his testing that Zwift are now looking at. You avoid crashes caused by an inability to unclip on time. What a bunch a @#$hats to send out a defective refurb. For the purposes of this particular table, Ive compared it against the Elite Suito, Tacx Flux S and Wahoo KICKR CORE, all of which are the mid-range trainers from each company. Performance Cycling Limited 2022. Even more, if you use Backcountry.com or Competitive Cyclist with coupon code DCRAINMAKER, first time users save 15% on applicable products! I certainly do as my legs tire. Eric Minns initial statements about making a branded smart bike were all about how can they make an all-in-one, just-get-on-it-and-ride experience like people get from Peloton to bring in those who dont want to have to become tech savvy just to ride their bikes indoors before they started talking about glowing wheels, steering, braking, haptic feedback, potentially rising the front end, and all the other whiz bang gadgets that the enthusiasts wanted. looks like they raised prices by $100 to 1100 or 1485 canadian. I stopped a couple of times to tweak the adjusters on the legs, and hopped back on. I would love to know the gears of the 12 speed cassette. I think the H3 may be an outlier in this regard. Pros and cons of different types of bike pedals | Sources: The average weight of different MTB pedal types | Source: List of Crankbrothers cleats, their release angle, and float | Source: What is the difference between Shimano SM-SH51 and SM-SH56 cleats? As usual, I put the trainer up against a number of power meters to see how well it handled everything from resistance control accuracy, to speed of change, to any other weird quirks along the way. Max Wattage: 1,800 watts resistance (or 1,300w @ 40KPH) 1 its noted these are done via the Zwift Companion App, so does this require me to be a Zwift paying subscriber to login to the Companion App to install future Firmware updates? Rear Tyre: 349 x 35C Schwalbe Marathon Racer. In my country the reels are sold out. I did a 3.5 hour session on Sunday and had no knocking issues. They have platforms that may offer your feet support if you miss clipping in on time. Then hit up Wiggle at the link below! International Deliveries Temporarily Suspended 11/11/20. Selling out of old stock, etc. It rotates between left/right pedals at different times so not a pedal/crankarm issue and the bottom bracket feels tight but admittedly has not been serviced in a few years. Asking if I would buy a smart bike with a screen on it etc. From what I can see in pictures, the h3 seems to have a narrower frame but its hard to be sure. They were so nice I kind of felt guilty (unlike the horrible customer service I received from Wahoo). I have a silly question. Ok after some more looking at the data and then trying to decipher the solid / blinking light indicator on the H3, it would appear that when I wake up and pair up with the H3 smart trainer, it shows the power, cadence and speed from the H3 to the head unit with only the little trainer icon showing, then when I wake up the Quarq, the Garmin peeps and shows the little found power message and the dumbbell power icon (not the little crank power meter icon) and looks like it displays the Quarq power data from there on. Therefore, many riders agree that the best gravel bike pedals are Shimano M520 SPD pedals. Any insights into the price drop? Note that the unit is the same regardless of which cassette is attached. I just wish they had better distribution in Europe. Or, within a few watts (and even in the proper order). The main downside of YOELEO R6 is its availability in only a few color options. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. (So far). You can also perform this calibration from within Zwift too: In my testing I didnt find this necessary every time things seemed to be surprisingly consistent for me (I only did it once). Looks really nice! Heres roughly what thatll look like once complete. 2) What are differences between buying Zwift Hub or the Jetblack Volt 2? Another issue was ERG mode dropping. BMX grips tend to be a push on type, though lock on BMX grips are available. I also just put together my complete Gear I Use equipment list, from swim to bike to run and everything in between (plus a few extra things). Electronics is 90 Days from date of purchaseno questions asked unless abuse or normal wear and tear. 1) if Elite Suito is available for essentially same price, which would you prefer? Based on markings on box, my unit indicates it was packed by Saris in January 2021 (so a reasonably recent manufacture batch). Simulation Mode: Simulating a specific outdoor grade i.e., 8% incline. Its these same standards that also allow you to connect via head units too. Now that you bring that up, maybe thats the reason for the offset (not centered) design. The biggest difference from the higher level wheels in the Performance range is in the rear hub. Looks like being a late mover worked out well for Saris. Available in different compounds, a softer compound will provide more grip but wear faster, while a harder compound will last a long time but give less grip. The H3 will only support a 8-11 speed cassette. Much nicer inside but I might need a stronger fan. Even with the XD/XDR adapter, it does not work. As such, effective now, the trainer brand is shifting from CycleOps to Saris. One has to wait till it ramps all the way down before it starts acting normal-ish.. Me and GPLAMA, some 30 meters and umpteen walls away working at the desks were like What the actual fudge are you making so much noise for? This means that you can meet other people in-game and organize group rides. What that meant is that If I was in a race going hard, all of sudden i was going up hill when the others with me were still on flat ground. This means that it will be easier to handle the bike.Read my entire article explaining the benefits of clipless pedals. In the meantime, for calibration, you can use any number of 3rd party apps to do so. I suspect this will work, since for the most part you can only generate so much heat in the first 10 minutes of the ride. I keep waiting for REI to contact me about returning the original (I returned due to the cheap connector breaking within 3 weeks; all i need is a new power supply for a complete unit). And the spring clip provides a minimal surface for mud to occupy. Saris makes great products and backs it up with great service. Whats fun here is we can see exactly how long it takes to warm-up. Clipless pedals (like Shimano SPD) allow you to adjust the springs tension. The H2 is one of the products in that sale: link to clevertraining.com, (And using the above link helps support that site and makes you awesome. So if you need to stop often, you dont have to be afraid of forgetting to clip off. It is also much louder than the first one was. I remember talking with one of the leads at TrainerRoad a year or so ago, and he mentioned how for his personal use he really preferred the CycleOps Hammer because of how precise it was in ERG mode. Still, discerning Zwifters might wonder: how did Zwift design such a (presumably) competent trainer at such a low price point? So, if you like virtuality and enjoy computer games, try Zwift. Saris MP1 Nfinity Motion Platform In-Depth Review, Hands-on with new CycleOps Hammer Smart Trainer, CycleOps Hammer Trainer In-Depth Review, CycleOps H2 (Hammer 2) Trainer In-Depth Review, Best Bike GPS & Cycling Tech Buyers Guide, Shimano Ultegra cassettes for my trainers, https://www.dcrainmaker.com/images/2019/08/Saris.m4v, Indoor Cycle Trainer Desk (RAD/Lifeline/Vinsetto/Conquer/etc), Hands-on: Sigmas iD.TRI & iD.FREE Multisport GPS Watches, click here to Subscribe without commenting. Elite Justo = VERY SLIGHTLY 2. More expensive pedals are usually lighter and made of higher quality materials than cheaper, entry-level pedals. This results in contact and binding between the cassette lock ring and the dropout on my bike when both the adapter is fully fastened in the trainer (per Zwifts instructed Nms), and my thru-axle is tightened (to an identical level for my rear wheel). I extensively research every topic to provide you with the highest added value possible. All of these trainers are available locally (LBS), which is important for me. Fortunately, I have a hex bolt TA that I used with my old Kinetic fluid trainer, so I just use that when I ride my Giant indoors, so its not a huge deal either way. Noise level is good. Currently I have mounted a 12 speed MTB cassette on my Jetblack Volt but the biggest gear is a little too big and had to use some spacers so it doesnt touch the trainer. They used the same leg design for the left and right side. By the way, I should mention that the customer service from Tredz has been first class so far. It was clear in the marketing pics. Its pretty darn close to whatever you think you can handle. I know what you are saying about getting on top of the gears. Anti-vibration, large pad design eliminates numbness and slipping for any size hand. We are not responsible for their application. Maybe there is a more widespread issue. Ill see better whether to proceed with the purchase or not. Registered in England. I cant find any info on the net about this v2, Hi Vassili, the only main difference between the v1 AND v2 is the frame shape to allow more Disc Mounted bikes. Anthony that is a strange one. But in reality, since my 1st Gen Snap drives the dog insane, I ride in the garage before it hits 100F outside. Thats the M2, wheel on trainer. So, they need little maintenance and last for years. This impacts inertia and how it feels primarily when you accelerate or otherwise change acceleration (such as briefly coasting). I dont really know if the knock and belt slip noise are totally connected (ore even the same thing described differently by different people). This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. While Zwifts designers and developers created a virtual world from scratch, ROUVY uses real-world footage from places worldwide and augments them with virtual objects like avatars. 2019. It doesnt cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot. For example the Wahoo ELEMNT/BOLT/ROAM as well as Garmin Edge series support ANT+ FE-C for trainer control, so you can re-ride outdoor rides straight from your bike head unit to your trainer. The Zwift Hub properly follows virtually all of the trainer transmission and control standards in the industry today, meaning it works with not just Zwift, but any 3rd party app as well, given it follows all of these standards. However, only three worlds are available at the same time. Theres no better test of that than 3030 repeats (30-seconds at a high resistance, followed by 30-seconds at an easy resistance). I have to say Im not as happy with the H3 as you have been. This reaction time and accuracy are both tested here. The Shimano also actually does reasonably well here, as it usually does when steady-state efforts arent involved (or other complex things). The new trainer had a date in Mar 20 stamped and seems to sit flat on the ground. Sound isnt an issue for me because for now I ride it in the garage. I will say that the support from was good in the end. (See above for the longer original post). Current users can scuff the wheel with sandpaper, per their instructions. It would be nice to actually get a response back from them. Its sold out completely in EU. On the other hand, Zwift is like a game. Im not sure to understand: if I buy now a JetBlack Volt, will I get the same trainer or is it the Volt 2 (which is not released yet?) So here is the most up to date list of products I like and fit the bill for me and my training needs best! Try a reboot followed by a software update. (Actually I think most of them were) First world problems, eh. Performance Cycling Limited acts as a credit broker and not the lender, Barclays Partner Finance acts as the lender. Starting off with Zwift, as already noted it pairs up easily using either ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart. And with 12 speed drivetrains making their way into the market that may or may not have the same cog spacing, many people with high end drivetrains who buy high end trainers would need to get the right cassette for their drivetrain. You need to have a trainer app of some sort. Looking forward to testing it and comparing to the Elite Direto XR which is similarly priced and with Tacx Flux S, which is an nice trainer, which I first used with Zwift. In the Jan 19th post above I explained what I did to fix it. It didnt impact accuracy or holding the resistance level. Thanks for reading! I think the Core will be a nice upgrade from my Kickr Snap wheel-on trainer. Perhaps in the end you will open it. Note that because you remove the rear wheel I cant use something like a PowerTap hub to compare as well (which I would use in power meter testing normally). Its quieter than my Kickr Bike, and the only issues Ive had was some vibration at around 275 and high cadence. Of course, youre not going to put out exactly 300 w every single day, so that complicates things as well. This allows you to compare it against other trainers Ive reviewed. According to the comment I saw from Shane Miller in his review, the Hub/Volt has a fixed / non-rotating axle. As soon as the RGT acquisition was announced, it was clear that Zwift would have to stop selling their most popular trainer brand (Wahoo) and put their name on someone elses trainer. Hence, they provide a larger contact area with your shoe, so you will feel more confident. I havent bothered as I am not a sprinter. Yesterday and today Ive been dealing with the knocking sound. Both apps belong to the most popular indoor cycling apps out there, but is one better than the other? I would like to support DCR and enjoy ad-free DC Rainmaker ($20 per year). Assuming that your drivetrain is cleanish and your cassette is properly aligned (meaning, not an incorrect spacer in place), it should legit be quite. Performance did not change and everything was fine. And what happens after the warranty has expired? The main difference is that FulGaz doesnt use augmented reality, so you get an undisrupted view of the footage. It was mentioned at a presentation. I totally agree with all of this. I am yet to ride it but hope that being a batch from March that the knocking noise is gone. ALL CATEGORIESAccessoriesBikesIndoor CyclingChinese CarbonClothingComponentsElectronicsShoesStatisticsTips, LINKSBlogAboutContactDisclaimerPrivacy Policy, I started cycling when I was 4 y.o and have loved it ever since. What would I actually need to Zwift with this? I know this might be at a bit of a tangent but Ive noticed that the Elite Zuma finally seems to be available after its failed launch of last year. That is shitty. Meg D (CycleOps) @GH. But really, the noise from my fan is much louder than both. I have not used all the trainers like Ray but would have to say it is much better then the power meter & dumb trainer combo I had been on for a few years. Unfortunately I updated the firmware on my H1 and since the new firmware reports cadence I am really sorry. But worse than the flywheel spinning out, all 3 have vibrated through the belt when you pedaled hard. My buddies are using older Kickrs but Im afraid of the breakdowns with the new ones. Cranbrothers Candy pedals are available in multiple options that are made of premium materials (steel, titanium, etc.). Total amount payable will be 1655.83 with a cost of credit of 256.83. e.g., is it a case of spinning for 10 minutes after X minutes of non-use (e.g., 600 minutes, 1200 minutes, etc)? Zwift says potential buyers can register interest and get more information at zwift.com/hub. I prefer to make a purchase in Amazon. Get all your awesome DC Rainmaker gear here! All Id say is that the Zwift Hub was great for me Id also considered the Saris, however as a company their financials are not great and with a two tear warranty for Zwift I expect them to be around to honour it. Actually I have Fulgaz on ATV but I find BT to be a Royal PITA. You can click here to Subscribe without commenting. Especially when you might not use the device all summer and then start using it again when it turns cold. Genuine Nintendo GameCube Game Boy Player Spice Orange Gameboy Player.New (Other) C $114.21. Great review. I have checked to make sure my cassette is installed correctly, and that is not the problem. I know their maybe clearance issues in the 51T sprocket with the der but would love to get it to work out. You can try a fix, as suggested in the video or at least research in a similar way. I did two laps of Yorkshire on Zwift so a decent ride. And what about NX 12 speed cassetes that fit on standard shimano freehub? Terms and Conditions apply. A few words about using road bike pedals on a gravel bikeSome riders prefer using road clipless pedals on their gravel bike. I used an allen wrench tightened both sides up and no issues after that. And to that end, I think Zwifts done a really good job of striking the right balance in offering a product at a fantastic price point that bats well above every other trainer in that price ballpark. I chatted and sent an email to Zwift and Im still waiting on an answer. This post is regularly updated to provide you with the most up-to-date product tips. It has a fair rigidness and doesnt flick as freely as the Shimano pedals. My bike has disc brakes and Im using a Shimano 105 11 speed cassette. Theres a glowing status light on the backside of the H3. Its solid and quiet, hooks up to the system every time etc. If youre doing 300w today, it means that it could really be 306w or 294w. You can host a race in both apps. Thanks so much for the reply, I will definitely implement your suggestions and play around with the gearing. These include Candy 2, Candy 3, Candy 7, or Candy 11. So what I am reading is that it isnt possible for the H3 to run a 12 spd cassette without some modifications to the trainer body? So Wahoo have lodged multiple patent violations against Zwift and via that JetBlack for patent violations asserting that the unit is copying the Kickr Core. Maybe some slight knocking (this unit had both spacers loose I hand tightened originally and knocked worse than the first unit) but by the time I pulled my earphones out it was over and never came back. You always meet somebody. Flat pedals, sometimes also called platforms, are not popular only on hybrid or mountain bikes, but some riders use them on their gravel bikes. Im using it with Zwift. Have you done this and can you confirm the axs 12spd road group works? Still, the option is always there. Heads Up Massive Sports Tech Deals List! Barclays Partner Finance is a trading name of Clydesdale Financial Services Limited, a member of the Barclays group. Those trainers simply dont perform as well as the H3 does in ERG mode. Petr, Your email address will not be published. Assuming you can find an H2 for $800 or less, if you dont care about the noise, any opinions on whether the H2 is the better buy? My Photography Gear: The Cameras and Equipment I Use Daily, DC Rainmaker 2021 swim, bike, run, and general gear list, Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated November 27th, 2022 @ 10:29 am, Wired or Wireless data transmission/control, Can electronically control resistance (i.e. Looks like a kicker core with better in some areas. I wouldnt give up my H3 for anything. Thought I would post an update on my experience with the H3. These pedals have an extended warranty period of five years, so if they break, you can contact the seller and issue a refund. Further, while Zwifts goal with this trainer is heavily focused on attracting new subscribers and recurring revenue to the platform, the company says its not selling this trainer for a loss but is in fact making a small profit. I have received an E-mail from Zwift yesterday evening (October 20th) that the Hub was available again. Any idea which one would be better? (The Elite Suito is doing just fine, thank you, ;^D but theres nothing quite worse than, Includes everything you need, including a cassette! and then learning the old bike in the back of your garage was not going to hook up to the Suito youd just barely gotten before stock ran out again. I get a loud internal clicking sound only when the trainer is warm. I cover all the units to buy (and avoid) for indoor training. CycleOpserrnow Saris is getting a bit ahead of the Eurobike show announcement flood by starting early. Click above for all the details. I went from an H2, and the wife said that she could hear me riding from the garage before she even opened up the door, and its three rooms down. It happens on the pedal downstroke, on both the left and right sides, at around the 3 oclock position. So that is Saris line, but as per above there might be cases where the cassette touches the body of the trainer. Now we know why its been taking so long for Zwift to introduce (not just announce) much in the way of new roads and features. Those also support multiple bt connections (essential if you use a Polar/Suunto to track) and the Kickr Climb. I have not had the delay problems you described, and I have been through 3 H3s for slipping belt issues. The lines are almost exactly the same. Below, I will help you decide which one you should use. It dials the pain you are telling it to dispense. They are using the same part, molded from the same tool vs actually designing an appropriately shorter leg and getting tooling for molding that shorter leg. . The SF-T7515 Smart Treadmill with Auto Incline is packed with state of the art technology that will keep you engaged and connected. Saris sent me a replacement H3. So if you set it for 250w, itll hold that no matter if youre at 120RPM or 80RPM. Maybe you are using the big ring? The app uses your connected power meter as the source of truth and adjusts the trainer resistance to whatever level is needed to hit and hold the power target. That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbitsand it also makes you awesome. My first one has a November date and the replacement is stamped March 2020 while a friend of mine received his last week also stamped March. This site contains affiliate links to Amazon, Wahoo, and other brands. Heres a bunch of random trip reports and daily trip-logs that Ive put together and posted. Save with. Announced about a month ago, this new smart trainer is essentially a repackaged JetBlack VOLT V2 trainer, but at a substantially lower price point than virtually every other direct drive trainer: $499.Most trainers with these specs tend to float in the $799-$999 price ballpark, thus making this potentially one The one issue I cannot seem to resolve is it seems that you much have Apple products to use these devices with Zwift, etc. Available in different thicknesses for comfort preferences and different compounds to provide a different feel on the bike with an array of different colours available to personalise your bike. I generally only judge a trainer on my more perfect pedaling efforts. My Powerbeam Pro was great, my Fluid2 before that was great. Can you comment? That was then replaced with a different unit in mid-September, which Ive used since. Anyone have an update on their stability? What the H2 should have been. Did anyone else get that trainer survey from Zwift recently? Hi. No issues at all. There does not appear to be a Campy compatible freehub option for the H3. In Colombia i can find them for the same price the elite studio than imports the Zwift hub, which one do you recommend? Hi guys, I put in a question to Saris but no reply yet. Heres those data files: Again what do you notice? The visual experience is entirely different from ROUVY. And there is still a smally delay with ble, so sometimes I race on ant+ just to make sure I have no issues. Use Backcountry.com or Competitive Cyclist with either the coupon code DCRAINMAKER for first time users saving 15% on applicable products. It happens at all cadences and gets louder the more force is applied through the pedals. It seemed the chassis was warped and keeping the rear right corner off the ground when the legs were extended and feet adjusted to compensate for the lean to the right on level floor. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). For the 12-speeds, people will have to buy XDR adapters anyway. Cross-compatibility was about the H3 being able to use the climb. Like many trainers, in order to get things started on the Saris H3, we need to get a cassette installed on the back of it. (this was the black friday before covid hit, so got a bargain too!). Its on my Giant Defy. Heres a suggestion- before you try to get new customers focus on the loyal ones that can help evangelize theRead more . Email from Saris: I think it was DC that said that Saris should include a thruaxle that uses a standard Allen wrench *shrug*, And that probably explains why I keep tripping over the left leg. Best Bike GPS & Cycling Tech Buyers Guide, also coming to existing JetBlack VOLT V1 trainers, Wahoo ELEMNT ROAM V2 (2022) Bike Computer In-Depth Review, click here to Subscribe without commenting. I used it now for approx 20 hours and am happy with it. Zwift will estimate your power using the zPower algorithm and trainers power curves. Actually, would you like to buy a H3, none of the problems you described, but a vibrating belt as you pedal hard? This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. Their main advantage is that they allow you to take your feet off the pedals quickly. In any case, a 50/34 with 11/34 combination isnt so much different from a standard road gearing, it should be possible to recover the slightly longer chain by gearing up one or two steps on the rear cogs, right? And on regular SIM (e.g. Apparently there was a change in the upstream CycleOps/Saris distributor in the UK for Clever Training, and its been a bit of astrugglegetting stuff super-fast for initial listings. This is one of their main disadvantages compared to the pedals of the above-mentioned manufacturers. I have been helping a VI rider with getting set up for training indoors, as well as piloting him outdoors for races etc. My brain can only turn off so much of that. The ability to simulate slopes up to 20% is not worth much, if you are required to do them at 350+W lol. Heres that data set: You know what I like about this chart? Bar ends are then inserted into the ends to tidy up and protect the end of the handlebar. After watching that video, I am impressed with his drive to find the issue. After the KICKR 18 disaster (3 failures), I was able to get a refund and moved to a Cycleops H2 a few months ago, which Ive been overall pretty happy with. Then i have earphones, phones around the house etc etc. Sound: Essentially silent. If youre using Zwift or something with SIM mode then cassette size matters even more and youd want one to suit your abilities and preferred cadences. Randolph. Hope it continues. Saris does have an app thats set to be released shortly, but its not yet functional with the H3 trainer. Similar to how I believe the wahoo app lets you set those and just ride without needing TrainerRoad or Zwift or any other app? I have experienced prolonged frustration with Kinetic trainers and I am trying to make a more informed decision this time. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left). over an hour), where more heat can build up, as the Zwift Hub doesnt have an internal temperature sensor. Yup, definitely true on margins gains potentially being fake news. Given theyre available in the UK for 450 they would seem to be a good deal for a direct drive trainer. I think its interesting that you always say you wish high end trainers came with a cassette while you wouldnt necessarily expect less expensive trainers to come with one. I have a Hammer 1 would it be worth going to the H3? Single phone call to Saris customer service in America quickly and efficiently resolved only issue so far (namely the bendy piece attaching power cord to unit is dead) they are sending a replacement by mail in the meantime the unit works and hooks up to Zwift / updates firmware as expected. Now, what about a cheaper smart bike? In this case, I did a warm-up of 10 minutes, and then started my first 1-minute interval. CyclistsHub is supported by its readers. As you probably know, apps like Zwift, TrainerRoad, SufferFest, Rouvy, FulGaz, Kinomap and many more all support most of these industry standards, making it easy to use whatever app youd like. Why does their website say it is compatible? The unit arrived defective. Plus there are smart trainers here, all in these guides cover almost every category of sports gadgets out there. I could not find any such statement on their webpage. Question on non-drive side chain stay clearance. Correct, but, previously, only Elite and Wahoo trainers officially said that they supported rotation on the rear axle. This may also require replacing the chain, depending on its age and which chain you have. Ill get it dug up. Sorry if Im mixing things up here between auto-calibration and stabilization in the Hub when asking this quesiton: Is there any idea what triggers the auto-calibration function in the hub? Other considerations? If so how does it work? If you decide to spend a little bit more on Eggbeater 2, 3, or even 11, you can also take advantage of traction pads, more premium materials, and lower weight. Its more than likely just the exact shifts in power that trigger the cadence drops (like on the Zwift Titans Grove rollers): Overall though things are very good accuracy wise in my data sets from a power standpoint. As long as Zwift Hub supports rotation along the rear axle it should be compatible with the Rizer since the Hub supports ANT+FE-C. Oh, and you can sign-up for the newsletter here! Learn more in my other article entirely dedicated to gravel bike shoes. Realistically the internals arent going to go pop on the H3. Anyone figured out what the light status refers to? By and large the Saris H3 isnt a dramatic upgrade over the H2. The MP1 will work find with a Wahoo Climb, once you remove the front wheel support. Their minimal size, which is the tiniest in this selection, is quite a cool feature. This brings many benefits: On the other hand, Crankbrothers pedals wont allow you to adjust the release tension. It also uses real-world footage from all corners of the world. You will feel one with the bike. Note that while SARIS has an XD/XDR adapter for the Hammer 3, that adapter is not 12-speed compatible. There are other minor things that the KICKR CORE has in terms of the ride experience that the Zwift Hub lacks, such as integration with the Wahoo CLIMB, or multi-Bluetooth connections. For a ~30 min race yesterday, with a rough comparison my Quarq Power meter showed 86RPM and the H3 was 87RPM average. First is how quickly it responds to the commands of the application. As per video I dont think the knock (assuming your symptoms are the same as mine) are harmful in any way. Feel free to read the buyers guide section first if you dont know whether or not to buy MTB and gravel clipless, MTB flat, or road bike pedals for your gravel bike. You can spend more money that the H3 costs, but the thing just works. At 286g, they are a convenient selection for anyone looking to cover large distances. 1. They mainly differ in their price, weight, and other small details. A few reasons: A) While the H3 is *THE* trainer for TrainerRoad and ERG workouts, I find the road feel better on the KICKR lineup (replication of road feel). The trainers would overpower you and your cadence would eventually drop down to a standstill. Many shops have boxes of skewers and at the one I worked at, we usually just gave the basic ones away. Use Backcountry.com or Competitive Cyclist with either the coupon code DCRAINMAKER for first time users saving 15% on applicable products. To continue promising you a malware-free catalog of programs and apps, our team has integrated a Report Software feature in every catalog page that loops your feedback back to us. Their library is easy to filter based on the name, distance, duration, ascent, etc., so you always find the one that suits you. I wrote to both Saris and Zwift supports lets see.. New issue today with my H3 (aside from the scraping noise during every acceleration) about 30 minutes into a zwift race, the trainer shut off, lights on it went out and no power transmitting to zwift. Hi Stuart, I know youre not looking for a reply from me! Neither Zwift nor JetBlack have released auto-calibration for the trainers at this time, so we really dont know how it will work. Saris replaced it. Their installation is simple, and they dont require much maintenance, thanks to their robust and durable bearings. Please provide some details. Doh, thanks! TIA everyone. But at the end of the day, you might just be wondering What does Ray use when not testing new products?. When you order the Zwift Hub from Zwift, you choose your cassette type upfront. There are also no gestures like the wave in ROUVY, so you cannot greet your (in-game) friends. In this one, Im demonstrating what happens if you dont do any calibration/spin-down. my weekly podcast - with GPLAMA, which is packed with both gadget and non-gadget goodness! In terms of the durability of the hardware, the existing VOLT hardware/unit has more than proven itself to be a good choice long-term, with me seeing virtually no customer complaints on my previous reviews. You say its a small niggle it isnt if youre racing. Components Is there something similar happening with this product? Plus, you'll be more awesome. I posted the email from Saris on this below. Ugh. The simple way is that the H3 was grey (with Saris), and the H2 is grey (with CycleOps). The tightening I was talking about is a 5 mm allen wrench used on the drop out spacers. They are great for larger distances thanks to their large platform that provides your feet with better support. Not the end of the world, but it is visible, primarily in sprints it appears. For more information please visit our Returns & Warranty page. A few started to pop up in EU shops (CRC got 3 last night). From there Im able to save the file and upload it to whatever platform I like. Canada would like to have a chat about this Global availability. Then Ive done a pile of testing in so-called ERG mode on Zwift and otherwise, which is where the trainer is set for a given wattage e.g. holding power at 250w), but less ideal when talking sprint accuracy (e.g. ShoesRoad Cycling ShoesMountain Bike ShoesGravel Bike ShoesNon Cycling Shoes for CyclingWide Cycling Shoes, Bike PedalsRoad Bike PedalsMTB Clipless PedalsMTB Platform PedalsGravel Bike PedalsHybrid Bike Pedals, Your email address will not be published. And that all mostly sidesteps the most obvious thing: Zwift doesnt really care at that point if you buy a KICKR CORE instead. Thanks. You get them by riding (regardless of the type of ride you do). I am very interested in first-hand accounts, apart from excellent reviews from Ray, Shane and Tariq excellent reviews. Keep in mind, Zwift isnt selling this through retail channels, so they dont have to account for a retail markup. But I can live with that as long as the Garmin shows the Quarq power data and not the H3 power. Shouldnt be any issue to put a 51t and long cage derailleur. Looking forward to a couple of good years on the new trainer. Super-duper close. I ride in the basement so it never overheats, so not sure what that is all about. You can use it as well, more details here.). I may go back to the Direto. I recommend lower tension for beginners for easier release. Peloton for one even though not the same type of business model. Wahoo ultimately backtracked on their promise for 3rd party Climb integration. Most trainers with these specs tend to float in the $799-$999 price ballpark, thus making this potentially one of the best deals in the smart trainer world. The one annoyance I have with my H2 is when when using a thru axle, the body of the H2 gets in the way of the TA handle when tightening the frame to the trainer, so you need to use a TA that tightens with a hex wrench. It works very, very well in all setups, EXCEPT the following: ZWIFT, ran directly on an ANDROID device, connect via BLUETOOTH, try ERG ON. What about for the technical support and warranty issues. Learn more about the release tension. So this means Bluetooth can only have so many connections?? I too made the decision to go with the H3 because I didnt want to send trainers back like we hear from the Wahoo saga. Pricing and Availability: $499USD, 449, 499EUR. Also available at jensonusa.com, rei.com, and performancebike.com. They do the same as other companies in this space. Do I need an ANT+ or Bluetooth dongle for any of these? 1 Minute 220 watts 223 watts (+1.35%) Whereas in TrainerRoad Im looking at its ability to hold a specific wattage very precisely, and to then change wattages instantly in a repeatable way. You can decide what type of shoes you use (normal footwear or specialized cycling shoes). Additionally, while the Volt has some frame compatibility issues with certain disc brake bikes, Zwift explained to us that the Hubs body has been modified to maximize compatibility with framesets. Zwift has just reduced the price of every available smart trainer no more than $499. I was scared away from going the Wahoo route for direct-drive trainers so have no direct experience with them. I do get the email verifying that email was sent to them but that is it. They are made from sturdy aluminum and stainless steel, so they will last you for years and still deliver the same performance. I guess I will go back to Wahoo and pick-up the 2018 Kickr. Shimano SM-SH51 cleats allow outward release only, while SM-SH56 release in any direction. Interesting News: I have noticed on Zwift that when the trainer is connected via Ant+ FEC using an Anself USB dongle (a cheap one), there is a 2 or 3 second lag in the resistance. when I remember) (Source)You will need a smart bike trainer to participate in official ROUVY races and events. I explain what you should look for when choosing the best pedals for a gravel bike to help you make a wise and educated decision. Who knows why, but it was 100% on the new one. I obtained from Sigma and I emailed a video of the knocking sound to their warranty department who were very helpful. It just took me a while to figure this out!. *** Works with Hammer, H2 and H3 trainers You can use the little extra cable bendy piece or not your choice (you probably should, unless youre living on the wild side). At a little over twice the price I paid for the Flow 5 years ago this would be a no-brainer assuming it works as advertised. Cheaper is better apparently. Its around 3 seconds on Zwift over ANT which really screws you up on small ascents when racing, for example, Crit City and its small rollers. Today Zwift starts selling their first smart trainer, the Zwift Hub. Its great that it will hold 12-speed cassettes. I cover all the units to buy (and avoid) for indoor training. But of course, that trainer is almost twice the price once you factor in a cassette ($899 + a $50-$75 cassette, then tools to install said cassette if you dont have it). In this case, this was a new unit straight out of the box with *ZERO calibration*. Not sure how many people use the cobble vibration mode on the the Neo, as thats the main difference in features I could see, which didnt justify the extra expense at this point for me. Although ROUVY is also popular, due to its many routes, you wont encounter as many people on the routes you choose (unless you ride the most popular ones). My guess is Ill see it this week or next. The H3 has some issues, but it works. I tested the other H3 today (the replacement for the one REI would not take back). In that review, youll find my accuracy testing on the final firmware/hardware, as well as all the other usual testing bits. Their main disadvantage is that you cant adjust their release tension. So far all is well, no knocking noise and I like the really smooth transitions. Wanna save some cash and support the site? Both sides. Performance Cycling Limited trading as Tredz is registered in England and Wales 03398601. This was the biggest problem with the hammer i.e. Barclays Representative Example: If total purchase price is 1,399.00 and your selected term is 36 months 11.9% APR Representative, Annual Interest Rate 11.9% Fixed, you would pay 46.00 per month. Don't have an account? I had to study their website to understand them (like the training vs. time trial mode). Put a wrench on them tomorrow. Im not a racer. Really? I your intro commentyou usually note you will send back and purchase on your ownbut no purchase this timetoo many trainers in cave? Smart Trainers Buyers Guide: Looking at a smart trainer this winter? So that calibration, on the Saris app, didnt really go well, but got a success. This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. The H3 is solid, no ride simulation here, at all. 3. Thanks. Im guessing this is the culprit of the vibrations. You ride it. What is the impact of accuracy if youre using Power Match in TrainerRoad? Hey Ray which data field its the one on the watch to have a gauge-like view of the power? That said, I have a question about how to capture different cadence / speed / power on my Garmin Edge 530. Guess they werent expecting this kind of demand. and not the Quarq it would appear when the Quarq is awake. Under the product comparision, one of the line items is CAN ROCK SIDE TO SIDE (SIGNIFICANTLY). Cateye Velo 9 . My ANT dongle was $8 or so on eBay, it is connected to a USB port replicator via a 10 USB cord that reaches to my trainer. The drive side was tight enough. No I did not have the pulley slip at all but I thought that was fixed now anyway. Furthermore Wahoo KIKR is not available in Amazon. Like UCI cycling esport : https://www.zwift.com/news/27258-uci-qualifiers?__znl=en-gb This allows you to compare it against other trainers Ive reviewed. BUT JetBlack is offering the same trainer (Volt v2) for sale in Australia. While other trainers can simulate above 20% these days, I continue to question how many people actually want to ride such a gradient. Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. (Wed have probably one or two a year ask for one. In Zwift you get variability by having the road incline change and by being able to instantly sprint. Just a note about the H3 Ive recently discovered- the feet are not centered compared to the bike. Still, much of the road-like feel is driven by the flywheel, and be it physical or virtual, flywheel sizes tend to be measured in weight. Trainer with 2,5 % accuracy is no more accepted for elite races. Wanna create comparison chart graphs just like I do for GPS, heart rate, power meters and more? Manufacturers such as Shimano, Time, Look (and others) allow you to adjust it. Whereas, if I was doing purely structured workouts (e.g. Which then illuminates what is actually an interesting twist: The Zwift Hub is *actually* a JetBlack VOLT V2, which also includes some minor case-compatibility differences, as well as the automatic calibration algorithm. Or you can change the Zwift Trainer Difficulty level. Unless you live outside the US, in which case no sale for you. Just taken delivery of the Hub, 10 speed cassette was rubbish, wonky replaced straight away with my own, lets see how customer support deal with it! Im starting to believe that Saris sold all the defectives H3 with the pandemic. Huge savings and constantly updated, all here. 2. I have a question for you or anyone else. And, after the warranty is gone, will Zwift still provide repairs for the product, and if yes, where will the repair center (for Europe or specific countries) be located? Why havent you yet released a review for XYZ product you mentioned months ago? Their biggest downside is their weight which is much higher than the weight of Crankbrothers Candy, for example. which will be the same? I had the H1 for two years and it really changed my pedal stroke. They are well-known in the mountain biking world but are perfect for gravel biking too. The H1 was yellow. Have you ever heard about rocker plates? Road bike pedals are fine if you ride routes that dont require you to get off your bike. We also lead guided trips to the areas most incredible places. Obviously, if you buy the unit in the EU (for example) via them, but then travel to somewhere they dont sell hardware in (like Brazil), then youd be up a creek (just like with Wahoo or anyone else). Here are the best pedals for gravel bikes. Out of seat saddle I barley broke 600 watts, Im not a great sprinter but can hit 900-1000 no problem. I typically buy Shimano Ultegra cassettes for my trainers (mostly for sound-testing consistency across videos), but Ive also done a few SRAM ones and whatever else happens to be on sale from the bike shop. The Saris app is cr*p, I calibrate it with either TrainerRoad or Rouvy. And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, Ill be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. Racers prefer stiffer tension to avoid unintentional cleat release. Ive added the Hammer 3 into the product comparison database. This impacts inertia and how it feels primarily when you accelerate or otherwise change acceleration (such as briefly coasting). I see the opposite way. Anyway, Buy Away! And then after that its non-stop rollers as you climb up into the mountains a bit. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. Note some trainers do come with them. Can the zwift companion app allow users to operate the trainer in ERG mode by selecting a desired wattage, or in simulation mode, by selecting a certain grade or difficulty level? If you are looking for pedals that offer a good value for money, then the Shimano M520 SPD pedals are for you. Bluetooth Smart FTMS Trainer Control: This broadcasts as a standard Bluetooth Smart FTMS trainer (which is the Bluetooth version of the ANT+ FE-C protocol). Ill try a replacement from REI. Word is theyll get a bunch of fresh merch in, plus the new Hub, and probably have all of that available in October. This also allows you to simply control the Zwift Hub using a bike computer/watch, if you wanted to. Please note that Pre-Order dates can sometimes change due to updated stock information. If youre new around these parts, heres the long version of my story. And I also agree that the ERG performance within TR is on top of the heap too. For example, heres me using TrainerRoad on my iPad. So would it be worth it? Unlike flat handlebar grips, road bikes and bikes with drop handlebars use bar tape. If you are looking for light gravel bike pedals, these are not the best option. I was also shocked that one of the Kickr Bikes I had was louder than the H3. for the rest of the ride. Then hit up Wiggle at the link below! Thanks for the great article. Glad I did. Just want to mention that you can build your own workout using the PC app on Rouvy. Hopefully you found this review useful. Handsomely detailed design adds beauty to any bike. But appears H3 is a fixed axle trainer. Good News: I was pretty surprised how closely the two power sources agreed: Saris H3 4iiii Precision Thanks for digging into this. This is his site so clearly I trust his work in getting us as unbiased information as he can so there is that also. So we can kind of reverse engineer what ratings might be with the current crop of trainers. Ive put about 10hr on the H3 trainer so admittedly low usage to date. the price point is very good. Agreed on Saris customer service really taking care of its customers. Crankbrothers Candy 1 pedals offer one of the best price-weight ratios of all pedals in this selection. Customer service was also ver responsive. Parting gift for an ex? This one does not have the scraping sound like the first one did. Here you can see the H3 paired up with Zwift though on Apple TV: Youll notice that Ive got all the sensor types from the trainer included without issue. Thus, heres the back of the Zwift Hub power block in case you need to find it again. Im not sure if you can see it in the pic but its a flat plane on the entire drive side. Paperweight for a hurricane? In detail, that is more about the app you are pairing with, and making sure to select the separate cadence sensor as the source for your cadence information, in the device pairing screen. So for that, we need to actually look at the overlay from TrainerRoad showing when it sent the command followed by when the Zwift Hub achieved that level. With that thanks for reading, and stay tuned for plenty more to come from Eurobike! Huge savings and constantly updated, all here. I looked it over and turns out that the factory installed default dropout spacing were a loosing up. Max Incline: 16% simulated grade Its as simple as that. It has been solid so far. I had the Stages Power meter connected solid, no issues but the H3 wouldnt stay solid and kept losing Signal. Seems like a downgrade in every angle I can pictuer. I am sure an engineer could fix both issues quickly. For now, lets move right into setup. It offers an entirely virtual world, gamification elements, and many social interactions between its users. Would be neat to compare warranties in that table you have. Do note that Im plotting both the Zwift Hub ANT+ and Bluetooth signals on the same chart (recorded on different device) just to catch any quirks there. Its a nice hack I currently use with Kickr Snap, which allows me to keep the bike on the trainer and yet re-claim living-room space after training. Or doesnt it work that way in ERG mode? The above two are mostly just useful when pairing to more basic smartwatches that might not support power meters/cadence, but I dont expect it matters to too many people. Zwift Insider is independent of Zwift corporate (www.zwift.com), although Zwift does provide funding to help defray site costs. Theres also the question of stability of holding the power set point. There is not a shop around me that stocks it. We have put a lot of planning into its longevity and long-term customer experience I was planning to go with a discounted Neo 2 as it seems to be a relatively reliable machine. But on the whole, theyre in the same boat as everyone else. Im trying to decide whether to get the H3 or the Tacx Neo 2 to replace my aging Kurt Road Machine. I dont know if JetBlack manufactured it for Elite. You will find affordable titanium bikes as well as mid-range and high-end ones in this article. Use this YOELEO discount code CYCLISTSHUB on yoeleobike.com during checkout to get up to 10% OFF your purchase. The rigs arent just running a steady wattage, either. Flag any particular issues you may encounter and Softonic will address those concerns as soon as possible. Thanks for the review. And quite frankly even if I had been in the market for hardware, Zwift customer service is aweful. Enhance your purchase . The first ride I took, the bike started to rock a bit and there was a clicking noise. All that aside, my solution is to fold the leg on the left back to about a 40* angle, and strap it there. Popping my bike onto the Zwift Hub, Im afraid the chain is going to try to fly off and that indexing for indoor riding will be a nightmare. Now if only my thrashed to hell and back again knees would play nice with ERG mode. FWIW, as the data on this review is from several software revisions ago, I just did an ~90m sim-mode ride on Zwift that had a lot of rolling hills (it went through Titans Grove) using the latest version of Zwift and latest firmware on all devices and compared to my power meter. They are pretty easy to clip in and out, and of course, you can adjust the release tension to suit your riding style. After quite a lot of clicking on on Saris webpage I found this: And even that is not exhaustive answer. They also come with two release angles of 13 and 17 degrees, allowing you to set an angle that suits you best. Before getting into the issues I can say that it rides well with great road feel and no power and cadence issues when comparing live data with my Power2Max. So if you had told me you were a TrainerRoad/ERG workout person, then Id have said go H3. Some grips are a simple push-fit, tightly sliding over the handlebar, while some will use a collar on one or both end that "locks on" with a small pinch bolt. Do I need a smart trainer to get started with ROUVY? In any case, a typical cassette will cost you about $50, plus about $10-$20 for the tools if you dont have them. elite direto smart for 2nd hand 250. Obviously, this isnt ideal mid-race (its a non-starter), but then again, neither is skipping a warm-up before a race. With the hard effort still applied, the flywheel just takes off and the watts drop. Click here for more UK and international delivery information. Theyve always been quick to respond and dealt with my issues satisfactorily. And to compliment that, heresThe Girls (my wifes) list. There are *many* variations of cassette removal tools, this is the best bang for your buck. Meaning, its pretty natural for most people in 20min intervals to see cadence slowing down. I bought one in October and was just in time. First, theres a very slight bit of delay/lag in the above on the H3 about 1-2 seconds that you can see. You can also create your workouts using their workout builder or upload them. Full Representative Example: Representative 21.9% APR (variable), Purchase interest rate 21.9% p.a. The trainer comes with the wrench required for this. Correct that combination doesnt currently exist in any other trainer. Not knocking it because I do think it is a great warranty, but the Lifetime part is limited. Was a no-brainer for us as weve been shopping for a second trainer so we can ride together. Agreed. It takes 30 seconds to change or adjust on the trainers when setting them up as all trainers come with different spacers for the variety of axles that they have to accommodate. So essentially, how clean you keep your drivetrain is the key factor for how quiet your trainer is. So Ive narrowed it down to the H3 & Neo 2T since I dont need 12 speed support and probably wont for many years. In-Warranty they will either send me spare parts or replace a faulty unit at no cost. When Im going downhill, the trainer is at 3% resistance and when Im going uphill its at -3%. I assume this issue is overheating protection but wanted to make sure. The answer depends mainly on your personality and goals. *Zwift has a fully dedicated mobile app for this called Zwift Companion. Note that because you remove the rear wheel I cant use something like a PowerTap hub to compare as well (which I would use in power meter testing normally). Have you found the same issue WRT flywheel speed vs. power that Tariq found in his review? I suspect this is tied to their new algorithms to get rid of the bonus Hammer sprint spikes previously seen on other units. I originally tried to get the H3 working and couldnt get ERG at all. Don't overthink this. The Watopia is open permanently, and the other two worlds change based on a schedule. On the apps settings menus, there are choices for: I think I am having the same issue. Or will the smart steering always be on a dedicated channel. With that, heres the complete list of protocol transmission standards/types the Zwift Hub Supports: ANT+ FE-C Control: This is for controlling the trainer via ANT+ from apps and head units, and includes power & cadence data. Has anyone had issues with the H3 spinning out? Thats tough. First up, its listed on their purchase page here (and screenshotted below), which means its part of the product at the time of purchase. (it will show on screen as if ERG is ON, but it will behave like a stupid trainer). The knocking noise for me was there on the second ride, it was the dropout spacers. For today Ive compared it against the Wahoo KICKR 2018, Tacx NEO2, and Elite Drivo IIand the slightly less expensive KICKR CORE (but spec-wise competes very well). Theres no doubt that tradition has carried through to the Saris H3 as well. I am very happy with the trainer so far. Youve got it. I bought a Elite Direto X a month ago, but im not too crazy about it. Techs name was Peter. TrainerRoad or Zwift ERG mode), then Id probably go H3. I had an older Fluid2 unit that failed well outside of its warranty period. However, they are limited by the riders weight limit, so keep that in mind. I get it, because I have sourced plastic injecting mold tooling, and its not cheap. Zwifts own smart trainer was a distraction, but this is not that. This is all in addition to the trainer itself. You probably stumbled upon here looking for a review of a sports gadget. I have found that even when my laptop looks like its sleeping, it still transmits ble. Firmware is up to date (I updated a couple of weeks ago) Sometimes it was a few per rotation and sometimes it was almost constant. B) The CORE is substantially quieter than the H3, namely because the CORE is virtually silent and the H3 is very much not silent. Depending on how loud/big a fan you add, it may be a wash, but I prefer to start from no-noise. Thank you for reaching out and for your recent H3 purchase. If it loosens up again, Ill just use a touch of Lock-tight and secure it that way. Turned out its just the default dropout spacers that were not fully tightened from the factory. But all of those trainers are priced hundreds of dollars higher than the Zwift Hub, and only one (the Suito) ships with a cassette! Its not usable for me right now. Not entirely, at least. I am trying to make a decision between Wahoo KiKR/Wahoo KIKR code/Saris H3. You need a bike trainer, cadence, and speed sensors. Bummer. The H3s native cadence signal on my unit (box date stamped May 20, 2020) is essentially unusable on Zwift, and I suspect this is the case on any indoor cycling computer application. Ive flagged with Saris and Sigma where I purchased. I am intrigued by their motion platform that I cant use with my Neo Smart Bike, but wow, it sounds awesome. I got a good quality SNAP so I got lucky. I would say the road-feel is better on the H3 than the Tacx NEO/NEO 2 though. Then my strap over the partially folded leg keeps it firmly held to the rocker deck. I have a Kinetic trainer mat, and its kind of thick, so Im thinking it might take a bit to get it level, but the leg mounts to the body have to be the source of the knocking. Anyone else had this issue? I think I may have used just a touch of blue, (make sure its not the red) lock tight to make sure it would stay. I dont doubt that, looking at OEM costs elsewhere, the pricing lines up. Might be worth contacting Saris support again. 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